User talk:IJzeren Jan/Archive 1

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From Steeven Radzikowski

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Jan!
Congratulations on establishing this "Slovianski Viki". It looks great! ...As does your revamped website!
As you may know, we have decided to take a different turn with SLOVIOSKI - namely, keeping its primary structure simple!
I do, however, very much support your and your colleagues efforts with Slovianski.
I believe there is an absolute and untapped need for Slovianski.
If I can be of support to your efforts, please let me know.
Blago te!
--Steevenusx 05:56, dekembr 22, 2009 (UTC)

Hi Steeven! It's great to have you here. I'd say: make yourself comfortable, and feel free to contribute any way you like, or if you prefer so, to be here just as an observer, and surely don't hesitate to drop in for a little chat every once in a while! :) I'm currently reading up on Slovioski, and who knows, maybe I'll be able to lend a hand here and there. At the moment I'm moving from one place to another, and therefore I won't be able to do much during the next couple of days, but after that I'll be back in full, I hope. Cheers, IJzeren Jan 23:12, dekembr 25, 2009 (UTC)

I like the new Slovianski format Jan! - np:

Moje imeno upotrebitelska IJzeren Jan znači: "Železni Jan" - pod tuttim imenom jesem aktivni v Internete od godov. Ja ne jesem človek, ktori liubi rozgovorivati ob sobe, zato skažu tolko, čo nazivam se Jan van Steenbergen, urodil se 3 junia 1970 i živem v časti v IJmuiden (Niderlandija), a v časti v Opočne (Polska). Moje glovne interesi jesut: jaziki, specialno umetne jaziki; istorija, specialno "umetna istorija" (alternativna istorija); Vostočna Evropa, specialno Polska; muzika; filmi.

Steevenusx 20:02, fevruar' 27, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, glad you like it! I have to admit, I like it better myself as well this way. BTW, you forgot to mark one word in red: filmi instead of fil'mi! :))) Cheers, IJzeren Jan 01:55, fevruar' 28, 2010 (UTC)

Welcome!

Congratulations on starting Slovianska Wiki! It's a brand new project, so it needs a lot of love. Here are five tips to make your wiki great.

• It's all yours right now -- enjoy it! Once your wiki takes off, lots of people will read what you write. Right now, nobody's looking over your shoulder yet, so feel free to try things out and make mistakes.

• Make lots of short pages! The hardest thing about writing is looking at a blank page and not knowing where to start. It's a lot easier once you write down your first couple sentences. So take a deep breath, and jump in -- make ten really short pages, one right after another. Once you've started, you can build the pages up slowly, adding a little bit at a time.

• Link your pages together! Links help you and your readers get from one page to another, so whenever you mention the subject of another page, use the "Add a Link" button to make a link to that page. You should also use the front page to link to all of the most important pages on your wiki. Describe what your wiki is about on the main page, and include links to help your readers find their way around.

• Add pictures! A well-chosen picture can make a bland wiki page come to life. When you're writing a page, use the "Add a Picture" button to upload a picture from your computer onto the page.

• When you're ready -- tell your friends! Once you've started a bunch of pages, linked them together and added some pictures, you'll be ready to start showing off your wiki to the world. You probably know people who are interested in the same thing that you are, so tell your friends to check out your new site. Those are your first readers and potential contributors, so give them lots of encouragement.

If you get stuck, write to us through our contact form -- we're happy to help!

Have fun!

-- sannse <staff />

Sorry

I'm sorry but, could you write the same message in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian or Catalan? I'll try to help here in some way but I don't speak any Slavic language. Chabi 20:31, septembr 1, 2010 (UTC)

wiktionary

Nadejus' vi menja urazumejte. Pros'tite, no ja ploho govorju po-anlijski, poetomu pishu po-russki. V Wikipedii skazano, chto jedin iz tvorcov slovianskogo — russkij, Poljakov. Skazhite jemu pozhalujsta, chtoby on svjazalsja so mnoj tut. Ja hochu nachat' vnosit' slova iz slovianskogo v russkij Wikislovnik.--А'Туин Всесвит (обс|вклад) 09:28, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

Oj, dopŕva sejčas vidžų vaše poslanje. Jeste li ješče zainteresovany sųråbotojų? IJzeren Jan⇒✉ 22:36, 27 oktobr 2014 (GMT)

Technicalities

By the way, we can host this wiki on the custom domain: m:Custom domains. So, for example, it would be not the bland isv.miraheze.org, but wiki.interslavic.info or something like that. There is also HTTPS support possible for free (via LetsEncrypt initiative). I don't know if you are interested in this, but it can be a distant possibility for this site. Lev (razg.) 18:46, 28 maj 2017 (UTC)

That could certainly be interesting. Would that go for every individual article as well? I'm asking that because for example www.medzuslovjanski.com links to my website, but there's no such thing like www.medzuslovjanski.com/alphabet.html. Cheers, IJzeren Jan (razg.) 19:01, 28 maj 2017 (UTC)

Yes, if you have access to DNS configuration, then it should support linking site-wide (given Miraheze staff help us in transition). P. S. You have your old contributions back on your account (thanks to Miraheze staffer. Reception123). Lev (razg.) 19:10, 28 maj 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, that's nice! As for DNS, that's really too technical for me, I'm afraid.  IJzeren Jan 19:28, 28 maj 2017 (UTC)

We can maybe discuss it later, I understand that it can be not that easy. Lev (razg.) 19:37, 28 maj 2017 (UTC)

Great. At the moment I'm a bit busy with the conference, but after that I'll have a bit more time for other things, too.  IJzeren Jan 20:19, 28 maj 2017 (UTC)

Wikis

Which is the difference between this wiki and this one? Are they written on the same language? Chabi (razg.) 14:00, 19 septembr 2017 (UTC)

Whew, that’s an old one! I admit that I had pretty much forgotten about that wiki since I put a message on its main page that it had been replaced by a new wiki. In any case, it is VERY obsolete. Old Slovianski grammar was replaced with a more sophisticated grammar based on Slovianski and several other projects in 2011 (under the name Interslavic), and earlier this year Interslavic and Neoslavonic have fully merged into one language. The grammar on Medžuslovjansky jezyk is up-to-date. Cheers,  IJzeren Jan 14:59, 19 septembr 2017 (UTC)

I’ve been creating pages in Slovianto there. If that wiki is obsolete, would it be possible to leave it as the Slovianto wiki and delete the other articles? Chabi (razg.) 08:23, 20 septembr 2017 (UTC)

Long-awaited return

Hello! Finally got around to resume my activity, want to write and subsequently expand a bunch of articles about Belarusian cities and want your help with grammar. An example article would be Бабрујск, at first I will follow the same template. Could you please fix any errors that I have in the current text? Many thanks in advance, Lev 16:24, 29 oktobr 2017 (UTC)

• Also saw changes in the transliteration gadget and have a couple of questions. 1) What was the reason for changing from Cyrillic to Latin as a default? I did this performance-wise since Cyrillic would be the default choice for most people using the gadget. 2) What are parts in []? I don’t think the gadget supports that. Lev 16:58, 29 oktobr 2017 (UTC)

  Hi there. Well, you can find an update version of the grammar on my pages at http://steen.free.fr/interslavic. What it boils down to, is basically that we will no longer endorse scientific orthography. The only non-ascii characters in the Latin orthography are Š, Ž, Č and Ě now. That means features like NJ > Ń etc. can be removed, but I don’t really know how to do that. As far as I am concerned, SX > Š etc. are all we need.

  Ideally, the transliteration gadget should also allow scientific orthography, too, but in such way that it automatically transliterates into standard Latin and standard Cyrillic when those are selected. I don't know if that's possible. The reason I changed the default was simply that there were a few errors I didn’t know how to fix. For some reason, nj became нј in Cyrillic, for example. Another thing is that Ě should be transliterated to Cyrillic Е, but not vice versa. The trouble with Ѣ is quite simply that it isn’t used in any language anymore and won’t be recognised by a lot of people, ergo it doesn’t serve understandability. Cheers,  IJzeren Jan 22:04, 8 novembr 2017 (UTC)

  I can restore MediaWiki:Gadget-autoFormatter.js for this kind of task, if we want to do this wiki-wide. Also will remove it from input method gadget later, although I am not really sure how we will do one-sided conversion in case of Ě with alphabet conversion gadget. For example, what to do with the pages already in Cyrillic? They would always convert a little bit incorrectly because of not having a counterpart in form of Ѣ (although yes, Ѣ is mainly known as a historical letter both in Eastern and South Europe). Lev 22:12, 8 novembr 2017 (UTC)

  Update: if you go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets, there is a new gadget that can be used for semi-automatic text formatting (given that it makes any Polish, Russian etc text look very bad). If you have any additions to the list there (code is in the link in my message above), add them yourself or list them on the talk page. Since this is sorted, the only issue is with current alphabet converter, so I’m waiting for your comments on this. Lev 22:51, 8 novembr 2017 (UTC)

  I have to shamefully admit that I am not wiki-wise enough to know about how to handle all these gadgets. To put it more bluntly: I don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. ;) What I have noticed, however, is that the gadget clearly prefers 1:1 transliteration in both directions. NJ<>НЬ it can handle, but that's about it.

  The Ě <> Ѣ thing is complicated indeed. The reason for keeping Ě in Latin orthography but not in Cyrillic is explained on my pages. There is a clear difference in pronunciation: the consonant before E is hard, before Ě is softened; Slovene, Serbian and Macedonian are the only fully Ekavian languages. Most languages that write Cyrillic have Е where Interslavic has Ě (except Ukrainian, but Ukrainians usually know Russian).

  I can see three solutions here:

  1. Just accept that Cyrillic articles don't have Ě when transliterated to Latin orthography. Interslavic written without Ě is still valid Interslavic; it's a situation similar to Russian Ё.
  2. Use Ѣ anyway.
  3. Have the default version of all articles in Latin orthography. This is probably the solution that gives the best results in both orthographies, but admittedly, it's not the fairest solution for those who use Cyrillic. On the other hand though, there are a lot more Cyrillic-writing people who read the Latin alphabet than vice versa.

  Cheers,  IJzeren Jan 23:43, 8 novembr 2017 (UTC)

  Tl;dr for words you didn’t understand: I updated input method (in the sidebar) and there is a gadget you can enable in your settings that will add a new button in editing toolbar. If you would enable it and select some text, it will remove any non-standard grammar from it. I don’t know the full scope of Interslavic scientific alphabet so if you would look at MediaWiki:Gadget-autoFormatter.js and go to its talk page and list any letters that I might’ve missed (and replacements for them), I would appreciate it.
  I looked into code of alphabet conversion and it seems to me that it is would convert Ě to Е and Е back to Ě, however, yes, this is the same issue Russians have with their Ё. I can agree with any of your first two points. Although I can’t say anything about Bulgarians, but I would think that average Eastern Europeans (Belarusians, Russians and Ukrainians) know about Ѣ and how it is pronounced, the issue will be probably with other Southern Slavic peoples (Serbs, Macedonians, Montenegrins). Since they probably do not understand this letter at all, I guess the most logical solution is to get rid of it in Cyrillic texts.
  The third solution, in my opinion, would likely cripple the participation from those people that use Cyrillic script, so I don’t think it’s viable or needed. Lev 00:14, 9 novembr 2017 (UTC)